Indecision 2.0 A TJ Dedicated to Abuse

[NWexplorer]

Some people say I have ADD when it comes to Jeeps. Actually, I have ADD when it comes to everything since, well, I have ADD. 

I picked up a pair of 5.9 ZJ's. The intention was to make one of them a wheeler and one a DD. Laying under it, thinking about unibody sitffeners, link mounts, etc made me depressed. That and trying to keep the sheet metal from looking like a crushed pop can meant something of an exo-cage and I'm not very fond of those....

So I cruised craigslist and found this little beauty for $2500.



A few small things wrong with it, pretty large dent in the back of the tub, and a bad water pump. Usually something like this (especially with a 4.0) goes for around $4K plus around here easy. 

I already picked some axles up for the ZJ, and will use them on the TJ instead.



The front is a 2005 Superduty D60. Massive breaks, 3.75" tubes, 35 spline inners and outers, giant knucles, etc.

Rear is a 2003 Ford Sterling 10.5. 35 Spline full float, disk brakes with e-brake etc.

Budget is going to be much tighter than the last rig. I really don't want to be wheeling a $35K+ Jeep again.

 

[NWexplorer]

Tentative plan​

Even though this is a budget build, this Jeep has an AX-15 manual trans. Good trans, but I hate wheeling manuals.

So...

A: I could swap an AW4. Quick and easy, cheap, great transmission. 

B: I could yank the 5.9, and 46RE out of the ZJ and stuff it in. Torque city, reliable, a bit on the heavy side. 

C: Sell the ZJ and drop in a LM7 5.3 out of a chevy with a 4l60E. More horsepower, lighter weight, better fuel economy, aftermarket city.

Steering: I'm thinking hydro assist with a tapped stock box and maybe hotrod the stock pump.

Suspension: 3 link front, single triangulated 4 link rear, Currie 1.25" shank JJ's, 2" .25" wall rectangular tube lowers, 1.75" .120" wall DOM uppers.

Wheelbase will be 100"+ 37" tires, 17" bead locks, 80" track width.

Not sure yet about suspension... I would love to do coil-overs but I really don't want the hassle of tuning them. I also have no idea if I can fit regular coils on the front... Maybe coil overs front and coils rear?

You know, pretty much just another TJ on tons.

 

[cescuzzy]

With those heavy axles, I think you'll be happier with more power.  I'd skip the AW4 and go straight to. one of the V8 swaps.

-Scuzz

 

[LowJ]

You have a problem.  

What do you mean "hotrod the stock pump"?

 

[NWexplorer]

With those heavy axles, I think you'll be happier with more power.  I'd skip the AW4 and go straight to. one of the V8 swaps.

-Scuzz

I'm sure the 4.0 and AW4 would be fine for 95% of my wheeling. I basically had the same axles in my LJ and it had adequate power.  That said, I'm pretty sure adequate and fine are two things that would bore and disappoint me after a 6 month+ build. 

You have a problem. What do you mean "hotrod the stock pump"?

Dirll the outlet for more flow and modify the pressure spring for more pressure.

 

[cescuzzy]

I'm sure the 4.0 and AW4 would be fine for 95% of my wheeling. I basically had the same axles in my LJ and it had adequate power.  That said, I'm pretty sure adequate and fine are two things that would bore and disappoint me after a 6 month+ build.

95% is not 99.98%.  Like I said, I think you'll be happier with a V8 option.  It'll be more work certainly, and a tad more frustrating here and there, but you won't get everything else together, take it for a spin and think "D****t, I should have gone ahead with the V8..." 

Just my take on the subject.

-Scuzz

 

[NWexplorer]

I'm with you. That option wasn't really a true option, I just wanted to cover it in case someone asked "why don't you just go AW4?"

Now the real question is 5.9 or 5.3?

Hmm....

 

[The_Eng]

5.3 parts should be more readily available and way cheaper

 

[NWexplorer]

5.3 parts should be more readily available and way cheaper

Which parts? I actually have a whole running and driving 98 5.9 Grand Cherokee I bought for cheap. Aftermarket parts you are correct.. Hard to get very far with a magnum engine without opening the wallet pretty wide. 

The way I figured, the 5.9 swap would be cheaper since I could reuse my stock gauges, transfer case, no adapters, etc. I would use as much as I could from the donor. The only question mark is a vibration it has around 40 mph. I'm not sure if it's the transmisison or what. I'm gonna take it for a spin when I get home and try to figure it out.

 

[cescuzzy]

If the 5.9 will end up being anything besides stock, then I'd go with the 5.3.  Sure, you already have the donor, but with a minor personal investment you should be able to sell that ZJ to finance part of the parts you'll need.  The 5.3 also has the advantage of newer engine technology...even trail rigs can benefit from better fuel economy.

-Scuzz

 

[TexNVA]

are you keeping one of the ZJs for DD use?
If so, I'm with Scuzz. Sell the other, then, hotrod the stock steering pump and the 5.3 👍

 

[G Beasley]

If the 5.9 will end up being anything besides stock, then I'd go with the 5.3.  Sure, you already have the donor, but with a minor personal investment you should be able to sell that ZJ to finance part of the parts you'll need.  The 5.3 also has the advantage of newer engine technology...even trail rigs can benefit from better fuel economy.

-Scuzz

Selling oOne of the niners will pay for most of the build if you stay on the mild side . So with that said the niner sale will pay for the suspension at best.  😀 

 

[NWexplorer]

If the 5.9 will end up being anything besides stock, then I'd go with the 5.3.  Sure, you already have the donor, but with a minor personal investment you should be able to sell that ZJ to finance part of the parts you'll need.  The 5.3 also has the advantage of newer engine technology...even trail rigs can benefit from better fuel economy.

-Scuzz

The 5.3 is the direction I'm leaning. I'm probably going with a fuel cell that's smaller than the stock tank, so fuel economy will be important. 

are you keeping one of the ZJs for DD use? If so, I'm with Scuzz. Sell the other, then, hotrod the stock steering pump and the 5.3 👍

Yup, the silver one is going to be my DD.

Selling oOne of the niners will pay for most of the build if you stay on the mild side . So with that said the niner sale will pay for the suspension at best. 😀

What the mild side? That sounds boring.  😀

 

[sheldon]

My thoughts:

- LS/Auto swap.  This is the brainless, simple, been-there-before option.  You have more than enough axle to handle 37"+ tires being spun by a hot V8 and you can get good fuel mileage, to boot...so I don't see any other sensible options.

- Steering: Hydro assist at the minimum...or a full hydro arrangement.  I'd be tempted towards the latter for a dedicated trail rig.

- Wheelbase: 100" or more sounds good to me.  105" would be nice but you'd have a bit more work to do, but either would help with the driveline south of the t-case.

- Suspension: Coilovers are easy to fit with those axles, and although they're a pain to tune you can adjust them pretty much however you like.  I'd do all four corners rather than just two.  A 3-link front and 4-link rear makes sense.

 

[G Beasley]

Flat fenders and push the front axle ahead, that will get you the wheelbase but there's no way I would run full hydro on anything other than a forklift

 

[sheldon]

Flat fenders and push the front axle ahead, that will get you the wheelbase but there's no way I would run full hydro on anything other than a forklift

There's only so much room before the frame and steering box limit the movement...and I wouldn't put full hydro on something that was going to see any pavement at all.  For an "abuse" rig that could see big-ass rocks, though, I think it's a viable option; it all just depends on what kind of "abuse" we're talking about.  I think a good assist will probably work just fine, but I at least wanted to make mention of an alternative.

 

[NWexplorer]

It's likely that I will be cutting the fame in front of the motor mounts so the frame won't dictate where the box goes. The front of the frame really kills uptravel on a D60 when you push the axle forward especially with high mounted steering. 

The abuse this rig will see is probably more mild then some people's idea, but certainly more than I subjected the last Jeep to. We don't have a ton of rocks around here, the biggest hazard is bumping into trees after some WOT induced wheel spin off some exposed roots or mud. 

 It will see road on nice days, so it will need to be drive-able at freeway speeds.  People on Pirate say full hydro is fine, but my version of fine and theirs maybe different.  Full hydro would solve A LOT of issues with the front end, I just don't want to create any more.

 

[sheldon]

It's likely that I will be cutting the fame in front of the motor mounts so the frame won't dictate where the box goes. The front of the frame really kills uptravel on a D60 when you push the axle forward especially with high mounted steering.

The abuse this rig will see is probably more mild then some people's idea, but certainly more than I subjected the last Jeep to. We don't have a ton of rocks around here, the biggest hazard is bumping into trees after some WOT induced wheel spin off some exposed roots or mud.

It will see road on nice days, so it will need to be drive-able at freeway speeds.  People on Pirate say full hydro is fine, but my version of fine and theirs maybe different.  Full hydro would solve A LOT of issues with the front end, I just don't want to create any more.

I can't really fault any of that logic...and for the record, I do a lot of truth-sifting on Pirate.

 

[G Beasley]

It's likely that I will be cutting the fame in front of the motor mounts so the frame won't dictate where the box goes. The front of the frame really kills uptravel on a D60 when you push the axle forward especially with high mounted steering.

This is what I was trying to convey. Move everything forward.
I had full hydro that was properly built and it sucked on the road.

 

[NWexplorer]

This is what I was trying to convey. Move everything forward.
I had full hydro that was properly built and it sucked on the road.

Can you clarify what you mean by sucked? What is a double ended ram with a load reactive orbital? 

Fully hydro will clear up a ton of issues I'm dealing with in my head right now.  In reality, this will only be driven on the road connect trails, or to the mall to flex out on curbs to get chicks.